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Zfs ram calculator. Guidelines, best practices, tips.

  • Zfs ram calculator. Another question, i know that the index for L2ARC is stored in RAM, how much RAM do i then need (it is only a theoretical scenario) per GB of L2ARC? Best, Thomas read that ZFS requires / works best with at least 1GB ram for every TB of drive space This is for if you want to turn on the deduplication feature, only. Are there any comparable resources for the support VDEVs? Feb 16, 2018 · I have some old server hardware that I want to build a FreeNAS data server with, but it only has 8 GB of memory and I can't really expand on that. That said I ran on a computer with I think 32 GB of memory and I had issues where ZFS and Linux disk caching conflicted causing near deadlock situations due to ARC being ejected. Whatever you do it'll be at faster than unraid anyways 😂😂😂 Personally what I did is i Aug 6, 2019 · I recently migrated my production system over to a fresh install on ZFS with PVE version 6 which was overall a great success, but I had to do some quick research on memory tuning to fend off the infamous OOM (Out Of Memory) killer, and that is what I’ll be sharing with you today. Linux standard system monitoring tools don't take into account the ARC cache, so reported available ram is going to be much lower than the actual number. You should be GLAD ZFS behaves this way instead of trying to figure out a way to cripple it. 計算所需的存儲容量和 RAID 等級以選擇理想的 QNAP NAS。 Apr 23, 2024 · (This walkthrough comes from my ZFS capacity calculator page, available here. - Don’t use L2ARC or SLOG from the start. If a file system has the dedup property enabled, duplicate data blocks are removed as Oct 21, 2016 · ZFS uses an ARC (adaptive replacement cache) which is not accounted for in the traditional Linux "cache" memory usage. It’s a write queue before committing to disk and receiving write acknowledgement How much ram for ZFS array Hey, first time user here, I want to move to ZFS with my new homelab. Also note, that evaluated cache size is calculated strictly by formula, based on sum of zfs storage pools, when recommended cache size takes in account minimum recommended amount of 8GB ram. - If you need a special vdev, add it before moving data to your pool. Performance is definitely better with more RAM, but the overwhelming use of memory in ZFS is for cache. For reads, ZFS will hold basically any data that it's read off of disk in the ARC, until the data ZFS will release the memory for use elsewhere when and if that’s actually needed. For writes, it will use a large chunk to create transaction groups that commit to disk, generally writing contiguous (sequential) ranges where possible. The first level of caching in ZFS is the Adaptive Replacement Cache (ARC), once all the space in the ARC is utilized ZFS usable storage capacity - calculated as the difference between the zpool usable storage capacity and the slop space allocation value. Januar 2025 Statt Hardware RAID Controller oder Software RAID bietet sich ein RAIDz mit ZFS an. Jan 17, 2017 · Since you have not mentioned anything about RAM, I am assuming you have plenty as ZFS is memory heavy system. For systems with limited RAM, lowering the ARC size can help free up memory for other processes. Given: Server memory is 256GB Pool size: Hundreds of TB (most is archival - rarely used) Typical Data Frequently Accessed: Oracle SMB serving standard Windows CIFS home directories (some Linux, but it's 1 Anyhow, I currently have 72GB of RAM in the box now. software) System configuration (CPU, RAM, data bus) The type of workload and access patterns Firmware and file system configuration Recommandation : Use these results as a basis Dec 19, 2024 · Hey guys, I’m preparing a video to demystify things around TrueNAS and ZFS, but one of the things I’m having a hard time figuring out is the TRUE minimum memory, more specifically for the system to work (even if it won’t be a performant machine) or that ZFS requires to actually function. Edit: Yes, ZFS coalesces writes in memory before flushing to disk but it doesn’t use it as a traditional “write back” cache. The Jun 15, 2020 · Hello, How to calculate optimized for zfs cache, it uses too much memory and I don't have space to create MVs. Online RAID calculator to assist RAID planning. ZFS will automatically adjust the balance between MRU and MFU based on usage patterns, optimizing memory utilization. This number should be reasonably close to the sum of the USED and AVAIL values reported by the zfs list command. How can I determine the current size as well as size boundaries of the ZFS ARC Jun 15, 2019 · ZFS will use *all* the RAM it can. ZFS Storage Pool Designer Design, calculate, and manage ZFS storage pools Oct 28, 2015 · According to a wiki: Effective use of deduplication may require large RAM capacity; recommendations range between 1 and 5 GB of RAM for every TB of storage. The 32GB RAM on my NAS (max officially supported; I don't want to try a 64GB kit that might not work at current prices) was easily exhausted and I could tell there's a performance hit just by doing something simple like browsing a photos folder vs when there wasn't as much memory pressure. I have also read that ECC is required. Existing data blocks retain their original data-to-parity ratio and block width, but are spread across the larger set of disks. May 2, 2003 · How linearly do RAM requirements scale with ZFS volume size? I'd be looking at 72TB worth of drives which would mean 72GB ram for storage + 1-2gb overhead for FreeNAS itself using the 1GB=1TB Use this tool to plan your storage deployment, maximize usable capacity, and understand the overhead introduced by RAIDZ parity and ZFS slop space. ZFS Tuning Guide OpenZFS documentation recommends a minimum of 2GB of memory for ZFS; additional memory is strongly recommended when the compression and deduplication features are enabled. I currently have 64gb of ram. Understand ZFS RAID, vdevs, parity, and padding for efficient use. This would create a risk for data integrity if a system lost power. Performance Impact: If the deduplication table exceeds available memory, ZFS will need to access the DDT from disk, significantly slowing down both read and write operations. Online RAIDz calculator to assist ZFS RAIDz planning. After I added some swap space, the jobs finished, and the system would only dip a toe into the swap. The values calculated may differ from the actual results. It used to need a lot more than it does today. Feb 4, 2025 · We have had lively discussions of ZFS’ L2ARC, as L2ARC has both changed over the years, and how to tune the L2ARC has improved. 3 GB and then add a safety margin of some 20% for L2ARC the same rules apply as for memory of a zfs system: for biggest benefit as much as possible] Zfs loves to use ram as cache. Simply enter your ZFS setup details below to calculate total raw capacity and usable storage capacity. You can use RAM for ARC. Apr 25, 2025 · Use this calculator to estimate the storage capacity efficiency of a ZFS RAIDZ VDEV after incremental extension. Eviction is not particularly efficient due to the cache being allocated from the SLAB allocator, but that is changing later this year. Apr 24, 2025 · - Max out your RAM. Depending on your workload, it may be possible to use ZFS on systems with less memory, but it requires careful tuning to avoid panics Jul 30, 2023 · Hi, I'm trying to calculate my write and read speed gains by changing layouts on the RAIDZ Calculator and no matter what layout I choose write speed is always unchanged. What you suggested is exactly what I want to achieve - a better overall read&write performance for the HDD pool. RAIDZ type: RAIDz2 After calculating with RAIDZ Calculator I can use 15360 GB. I have 3 MV of 1 Gb of memory each and 32 Gb in the host and it uses 80% of the memory. Otherwise in case of power failure the data stored in a RAM cache Dec 22, 2008 · We are planning our Proxmox VE 4 cluster, and decided on ZFS (provided that snapshot backups will work for both KVM and LXC guests). ZFS / RAIDZ Capacity Calculator - evaluets performance of different RAIDZ types and configurations The calculator above includes the ability to set a recordsize value and calculate capacity based on a pool full of blocks that size. Jul 4, 2017 · Your ZFS is configured to use as much as half of your RAM (as indicated by the "Max size" line in the output you posted). But that is where the trail runs cold. trueJust a correction, ZFS does not use memory (ram) as “traditional” write-back cache. Minimum free space - the value is calculated as percentage of the ZFS usable storage capacity. If I make a SAN with ZFS I need to figure out how much RAM I need to put in VM. Oracle ZFS Storage ZS9-2 Mid-Range Power Calculator Oracle’s flagship Unified Storage system is uniquely coengineered with Oracle software and provides more in-memory compute resources to deliver high performance with extreme efficiency and low TCO. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. We will employ one SSD drive per node as ZIL and L2ARC (if using 2 Example: Four 1 GBit ethernet connections to a Solaris zfs system (post 2010)? => 4 * 110 MB/s * 30 seconds = 3. So that'd be 120GB recommended RAM just to manage 16 TB of usable storage. If you are planning on running plugins/jails/VMs you will need to scale up the RAM per their requirements. Special Device is called Special Allocation Class, essentially you add a fast SSD and it will speed up the slow Jun 8, 2021 · Let's say i have a PC with X memory and a pool of size Y. It all depends on what you are planning to do with the server. A number of disks, partitions, or even files can be grouped into a raidz group with one of the following parity protection schemas: single parity - RAID-Z1, double parity - RAID-Z2, or triple parity - RAID-Z3. I plan on putting 6 4tb drives in there, with double parity, yielding about 14 gb of actual storage. Jun 25, 2025 · Explains how to set up ZFS ARC cache size on Ubuntu/Debian or any Linux distro and view ARC stats to control ZFS RAM memory usage. It does this by taking data about your drives and raid levels in order to figure out the total usable space, performance characteristics, and memory requirements for a zfs-based storage system. What I would recommend to change is the arc cache from caching data and Metadata to only caching Metadata. pl script to see the memory usages. Jun 4, 2014 · I was wondering if anyone could comment from experience on sizing L2ARC ssd caches. I installed 64 gigs DDR5 RAM to support ZFS, but it seems to be barely using my RAM. Would planning for 16gb of host ram be sufficient for that? I know it uses 50% by default but goes down as overall memory usage goes up. While more RAM is Jun 28, 2025 · Manually calculating your ZFS RAID storage capacity and cost can be something that you want to do if you are building out ZFS implementation. I’d By using ZFS, its possible to achieve maximum enterprise features with low budget hardware, but also high performance systems by leveraging SSD caching or even SSD only setups. Jul 26, 2021 · My knowledge about ZFS is expandable Many thanks for your reply, that's very usefull to me. ZFS is an advanced file system that offers many beneficial features such as pooled storage, data scrubbing, capacity and more. This complexity is driven by the wide array of data protection features ZFS offers. software) System configuration (CPU, RAM, data bus) The type of workload and access patterns Firmware and file system configuration Calculate ZFS storage capacity based on your configuration, including pool type, number of drives, and redundancy level. What I've also learned after some research is, that these SSD used for special devices should have a power-loss protection. May 17, 2017 · My software threads: The FAQ | Useful Scripts | Useful Commands | ZFS RAID Size/Reliability Calculator | Misaligned Pools and Lost Space | The ZFS Structure | What are your ARC stats? | You've an ARC question/problem? My hardware threads: How to measure drives spin-up current | How to build a PCIe bracket for a standard SSD that powers it too Jun 13, 2024 · Adding feature that will allow removal of existing zfs_arc_max line is up for discussion. Dec 13, 2023 · Calculator to determine usable ZFS capacity and other ZFS pool metrics, and to compare storage pool layouts. Set the zfs_arc_max value! For a NAS, 90% is a good value. Optimize your ZFS setup with accurate calculations in seconds! TRUENAS & ZFS GUIDE A guide to help understand and get the most out of TrueNAS and ZFS BUILDING A NAS A detailed build log for my TrueNAS/ZFS-based 400TB NAS ZFS CAPACITY CALCULATOR Accurately predict and understand the capacity of a ZFS pool GRAPHING ZFS Visualize and compare different RAID layouts and settings L2ARC CALCULATOR Estimate ZFS L2ARC metadata footprint size in RAM dRAID We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Dec 19, 2023 · These are more specialized for ZFS. May 11, 2017 · I've developed a JS web app to calculate the exact usable space and the reliability specially for the ZFS RAID types. ZFS usable storage capacity - calculated as the difference between the zpool usable storage capacity and the slop space allocation value. I have happily ran 15+TB zfs raidz volumes on a raspberry pi (with plenty of RAM to spare for K3s, Syncthing, and Nginx all running on the same pi). Is ProxMox not able to show the real RAM usage on Windows VMs? The VM tells me it's using 8 GB, ProxMox tells me it's using the complete allocated 32 GB. 59x, is it realistic that the number I get back for this calculation is a mere 3GB? dedup: DDT entries 8953198, size 2829 on disk, 342 in core even to put the entire ddt table into core would be a mere 27G? maybe that is what's happening as 37G is in use Apr 3, 2023 · On This Page ZFS Memory Tuning ARC Maximum/Minimum Prefetch Free Target ZFS Tuning ZFS on pfSense® software is much more robust than UFS and enables a variety of handy ZFS features, such as ZFS Boot Environments. Our general recommendation is to have a 1:1 ratio where a GB of RAM is added to the server for each TB of usable capacity. For example, ZFS can be tuned to use much less memory and sacrifice performance because filesystem Jan 27, 2014 · Hi I am searching for the forumla on how to size the L2ARC, but i haven't found anything yet. Nov 16, 2024 · I have a few long-running VMs that I use to test ZFS replication. ZFS needs very little memory to run. For most backup and archive configurations the required RAM requirements are lower and a reduced ratio may be used. It includes variables such as disk capacity, RAID format, compression ratios, and job type undertakings in order to offer accurate storage capacity provisioning estimations. My question is this, does ZFS really need ECC, and does it really need more than 1GB in order to operate Mar 16, 2024 · A ZFS storage calculator is a tool to calculate a storage system with ZFS requirements to determine storage capacity and performance. ) ZFS RAID is not like traditional RAID. Results from the RAID Calculator should be used as a reference only. For context, I will use 6 x 3840GB SSD´s. New data blocks adopt the new data-to-parity ratio and width, or overhead. But then it also recommends 40GB of RAM for 2 TB of L2ARC. I know I need more RAM but I just don't know how much. Take a look at the RAIDZ calculator below that will help calculate your ZFS RAID storage capacity and cost in your storage system. There's a high chance your workload won’t need them. Specifically, ZFS uses the ARC (Adaptive Replacement Cache) to store frequently accessed data in memory. Januar 2025 link bearbeitet: 21. How much ram would you reccommend for a 36tb RaidZ2? can I easily expand a raidZ array and start with 3 hdds and Raidz1 and then upgrade to 5 hdds and raidz2? how important is ecc? from what I see its kind of sad to not use it with ZFS. That will get you more ram space at the expense of potentially lower performance tho. Per the Unraid not How much ram? I'm rebuilding my server, I was running a 12900k with 128gb of ram but at work a nice Gen 9 server came up so I sold that off. You can experiment with different recordsize values to see its effects on efficiency. When setting up free NAS, do I need 1GB per TB of usable storage, or 1GB of memory per TB of physical disc? The zfs calculator helps you to visualize the efficiency and resilience of your ZFS setup. Because its on-disk structure is so complex, predicting how much usable capacity you’ll get from a set May 8, 2020 · ZFS 101—Understanding ZFS storage and performance Learn to get the most out of your ZFS filesystem in our new series on storage fundamentals. Nov 5, 2023 · Hi experienced Unraid users! I have little experience with this, so I'm hoping someone from the community can help me. The New System will have 512 GB RAM in each Node Sep 23, 2024 · RAIDZ calculator to find capacity and cost data about your ZFS storage pool and compare layouts, including mirror, RAIDZ1, RAIDZ2, and RAIDZ3 Feb 28, 2022 · Resource OpenZFS Capacity Calculator 2022-02-28 Go to download jro Feb 28, 2022 Overview Reviews (1) History Discussion May 27, 2015 · 5 node cluster, each node with: Intel Xeon E-2288G 128GB RAM 2 x 1,92 TB NVMe SSD in ZFS Mirror Replication of VMs between nodes via ZFS-Replication And the question is: Considering the speed of NVMe, how much RAM do we need to reserve for ZFS to make sure it works properly and does not cause unexpected reboots? OpenZFS Capacity Calculator - Tool to accurately predict the usable capacity of a ZFS pool General Sort by: Add a Comment RAID ZFS Calculator - IntroductionThis calculator provides estimates based on typical configurations and conservative factors. This calculator provides estimates based on typical configurations and conservative factors. By eliminating duplicate copies of files, deduplication can stretch precious ZFS capacity much further. You can find it using the orange Jan 24, 2019 · The recommendation was always deliberately vague, and arguably is a bit outdated. At the moment, I will use ~10 TB used storage. dRAID2 (TiB Usable) RAIDZ2 (TiB Usable) dRAID2 (Pool AFR %) RAIDZ2 (Pool AFR %) Apr 25, 2025 · Provides general information on ZFS deduplication in TrueNAS, hardware recommendations, and useful deduplication CLI commands. Does it mean that no matter the layout ZFS only provides the maximum speed of a single drive? Assume there are no any cache or special devices and RAM is limited to 32GB. That seems a bit excessive. Layout calculator for support VDEVs? Hi - I've seen a few ZFS pool "calculators", where you can input various zpool parameters (disk size, raidz level, etc etc) and it will show you the various permutations of available vs raw storage. While this behavior helps speed up disk reads, it can consume a large portion of available memory if not configured correctly, especially on systems with limited RAM. Jun 9, 2010 · Hi All, We are using zfs in our servers, as all known that zfs having the property of memory caching, while searching through internet i found the arc_summary. How to determine whether enabling ZFS deduplication, which removes redundant data from ZFS file systems, will save you disk space without reducing performance. For a hypervisor, use 50% or as much RAM as you can spare. You can really speed up ZFS by putting LARC on SSD. Jan 22, 2016 · The title says it all. Now with 16TB of usable storage, the documentation suggests 5GB per TB, so that's already 80GB of RAM for just ZFS. Which RAID-Z level should I choose? You will have to decide based on your needs and your drives. To ensure data security, system stability, and storage performance, the maximum number of drives for a single RAID group is now 16 (applicable to RAID 5, RAID 6, RAID TP, and subgroups of RAID 50 and RAID 60). 28 votes, 12 comments. How do you dimension the size of the log device (write cache) and cache device (read cache) for this zpool. Jan 25, 2024 · The Recommended System Requirements are confusing because they are different. The ZFS Storage Calculator is a program that gives users an estimate of how much storage their ZFS system needs. We will dive deep into: How deduplication works to condense files Real-world storage efficiency stats Prerequisites for using […]. Jan 19, 2025 · ZFS/RAIDz Calculator 🧮 Sonntag, 19. L2ARC should not be added until RAM is maxed out. Manually any amount of cache can be set. Getting ZFS to run on the Apple Watch is definitely possible. Use the Ciphertex RAIDZ Calculator to estimate storage capacity, redundancy, and performance for your SecureNAS® ZFS configurations. Use our ZFS Calculator to estimate storage pool capacity, RAID-Z performance, and redundancy. If your pool is nearly empty, you shouldn't hear much seeking (seeking on writes is a sign of fragmentation). Some ZFS features are not relevant on systems acting as a firewall, however. But one of the most beneficial features of ZFS is the way it caches reads and writes. What are you planning to do with the server? Use our ZFS RAID Calculator to estimate usable storage, parity, and fault tolerance across RAID-Z levels and configurations instantly. Apr 2, 2012 · Major update the RAID Calculator including ZFS RAID-Z, RAID-Z2 and RAID-Z3 as well as other features. Ein bisschen nervig ist bei den unterschiedlichen Möglichkeiten (RAIDz2, RAIDz3) die letztlich nutzbare Größe des jeweiligen Zpools zu bestimmen: Der RAIDz-Calculator bildet die meisten Konfigurationsmöglichkeiten ab und Aug 14, 2017 · I got two Questions: 1. You do not need a specific amount of ram per storage for ZFS. To assist you in selecting the right Ciphertex SecureNAS to meet your needs, use this product builder and RAIDZ calculator to determine the product that works for you and your data. Adding L2ARC on an nvme ssd completely resolved that issue, although adding more memory is even better. On a FreeBSD 13 VM with 1 or 2 GB of RAM, things generally worked, but as data and snapshots accumulated, my zfs send process would start to get killed. ZFS's deduplication is most efficient when the DDT fits entirely in memory, with the rule of thumb being about 5 GB of RAM per 1 TB of deduplicated data. Ideally, I would just add enough RAM to cover all of my VM allocations plus about 50% to 55% for ZFS and Proxmox See also: Solaris: ZFS Evil Tuning Guide, loader. Its on-disk structure is far more complex than that of a traditional RAID implementation. conf (5), sysctl (8). May 19, 2019 · Because there's been a historical ZFS rule of thumb to try to provision 1GB of RAM per TB of disk, I created some more modern guidance (at the time, ~2012-2013) and played the wording on it to be deliberately vague. Insufficient physical memory or lack of ZFS cache can result in virtual memory thrashing when using deduplication, which can either lower performance or result in complete memory starvation. Calculates capacity, speed and fault tolerance characteristics for a RAIDZ0, RAIDZ1, and RAIDZ3 setups. How is the Disk-Usage calculated on ZFS with RAID1 on two 465 GB disks? On the overview screen i see: Storage Dec 27, 2023 · The goal of this 2500+ word guide is to fully cover how to enable deduplication on ZFS filesystems to save considerable storage space. Use this interactive tool to estimate the storage space of your Synology NAS when paired with different size hard drives and RAID levels. Actual performance may vary depending on : The model and specifications of hard drives The RAID controller used (hardware vs. The compressed ARC helps A LOT with lowering memory usage. Your optimum really comes down to how much redundancy or data protection you want out of ZFS. It'll help you during planning or just help you understand how things work Feb 28, 2022 · jro submitted a new resource: OpenZFS Capacity Calculator - Tool to accurately predict the usable capacity of an OpenZFS pool I've been working on this over the past few weeks with the help of some folks at my company as well as the tools previously published by /u/SirMaster on reddit and Dec 14, 2013 · So if I start to calculate my RAM requirements from the above I need around 38GB of RAM just for ZFS? If that math is correct I would probably just round it up to 40GB. We plan to use small nodes (4C/8T CPU, 32 GB RAM, 5-8 disk RAIDZ2 in the 3-6 TB usable range). Free ZFS Storage Calculator to determine usable and effective capacity for ZFS pools with different redundancy levels (RAIDZ1, RAIDZ2, RAIDZ3, Mirror), accounting for ZFS overhead. To calculate storage and speed, use this ZFS RAID-Z Calculator. Jun 2, 2022 · Learn how to accurately calculate ZFS storage capacity with complex factors. Or if data protection is not there are constant warnings about zfs and dedup being a memory hog, on a system with 48G of memory, and a 24TB pool with a dupe ratio of 2. What Is ZFS Deduplication? In Oracle Solaris 11, you can use the deduplication (dedup) property to remove redundant data from your ZFS file systems. However, this discussion was taking up much of the responses in this thread: Here are common misconceptions: Size should be about 5 times RAM and no more than 10 times RAM. You could also try limiting arc size to very little with a system variable. You may be looking for a ZFS RAID calculator that can help with this. I have read that ZFS is memory hungry and that a minimum of 1GB is recommended. L2ARC sits in-between, extending the main memory cache using fast storage devices, such as flash memory based SSDs (solid state disks). This is no longer true. Mar 2, 2017 · ARC is the ZFS main memory cache (in DRAM), which can be accessed with sub microsecond latency. Calculates capacity, speed and fault tolerance characteristics for a RAID0, RAID1, RAID5, RAID6, and RAID10 setups. How do you calculate the ram actually used? Subtract kstat/zfs/arcstats from the "used" figure in free ? Or would total physical - (arc size + "avaliable") be a better measure? Build a SecureNAS® and configure ZFS RAIDZ. ZFS is known for its memory usage, as it leverages RAM for caching to improve performance. My zfs pool is 3*4tb disks in raidz1. If you want, you can restrict the caching behaviour manually as well, but consider ZFS usable storage capacity - calculated as the difference between the zpool usable storage capacity and the slop space allocation value. ZFS can replace cost intense hardware raid cards by moderate CPU and memory load combined with easy management. From what I have read ZFS needs around 1GB of RAM for TB of raw disk space. Guidelines, best practices, tips. In general, the behaviour you're seeing is expected and fine. ZFS allows for tiered caching of data through the use of memory. Feb 15, 2017 · ZFS' ARC being reported as used memory rather than cached memory reinforced the idea that ZFS needed plenty of memory when in fact it was just used in an evict-able cache. So that is no problem for me. RAID-Z is a software-based RAID implementation in the ZFS file system. 2. Raid-Z1 allows 1 hard drive failure whereas Z2 and Z3 allows 2 drives and 3 drives failures simultaneously. I've just created a new server and have been brave enough to try ZFS! LOL. Dec 16, 2022 · I'm setting up a fossil server on a raspberry pi 3 wtih 1GB of RAM. 8GB is the minimum for FreeNAS and should be adequate if you are doing nothing but serving up files. These will provide the most usable storage space, the best redundancy, the best data integrity, but also the slowest write speeds for ZFS Pool arrays. ZFS will however always yield ARC memory to other processes if needed, so the ARC should never lead to out-of-memory situations. yhyyva byfqet ghzd sftnzur cbx rsza rszf ryoteb dkrrr vvkivih